Ярик
Яндекс сказал, что да))

Эту операцию тоже провели, СПЛАГИАТИВ сюжет книги Голдинга. Ричард Адамс САМ в оригинале романа "Чумные псы" прямо о том говорил!

Это только у нас в русских переводах книги да в экранизации 1982 года все эти неудобные вопросы вырезали, причесали и прилизали, всю сатиру выхолостили! А она БЫЛА!

Lady Astrel
Роуф ненавидел НЕ САМУ ВОДУ, а именно Белые Халаты! Это не просто ненависть к воде, а конкретно - смутные воспоминания о пережитых экспериментах.

Доктор Бойкотт и его коллеги СПЛАГИАТИЛИ эксперимент с крысами у Курта Рихтера

Эту операцию тоже провели, СПЛАГИАТИВ сюжет книги Голдинга.

Lucianna_Todd
Вам известны правила, по которым делается дубляж?

Скарамар

И этот же термин использовался в переводе 97 года!


К вопросу о рифмах и Стукаче

Snitter gave tongue in the moonlight.

Greenup and Eagle Crag
“O friendly moon,As bright as bone,
Up in the skyYou rot alone.
The cracks and marksThat I can see
Are no great mys—Tery to me.
It’s plain to myObservant snout,
Maggots go in And flies come out!
“Now if a fly, On pleasure bent,
Sat down on my Warm excrement,
I wouldn’t mind One little bit.
I’m really kind—”
“Oh, come on, Snitter!” said Rowf. “What’s the use of sitting there, singing
rubbish?”

=====

They set off once more along the Hause. Snitter brought up the rear, singing to
himself in a quiet whine.

“The whitecoats dyed a mouse bright blue
And stuffed his ears with sneezing glue.
They shone a biscuit in his eye
To see what lay beyond the sky.
The mouse, he knew not what he did,
He blew them up with a saucepan lid.
So they were drowned in blackest milk—”

-----
В переводе 97 года песни Стукача переведены вполне достойно
Не то, чтобы мы сомневались, что люся всегда врет, но вот

Lucianna_Todd
То есть ваш обожаемый Адамс - плагиатор? Это же он написал роман, он придумал персонажей, он дал им возможность экспериментировать, и эксперименты для них прописал тоже он.

Lucianna_Todd
Так.
А в чем плагиат?
Если вы не знали, то эксперименты на разных видах животных — обычная практика. И когда они изменили крыс на собак — это именно что развитие исследования.

Насчет злодейства — а чем утопление крыс менее злодейское, чем утопление собак?

Ярик
Утопление крыс хоть что-то значило для науки, а утопление собак превратился в чистокровный садизм, БЕЗ пользы человечеству

Lucianna_Todd

Вам известны правила, по которым делается дубляж?

Lucianna_Todd
А это вот тоже "правильный перевод", да?

Ярик

собаки говорят в романе "tobacco man", то есть просто идентифицируют одного из экспериментаторов по запаху, мол, от этого разит табаком - табачный человек

Но в оригинале у Адамса глупых рифм не было

Песни Сниттера.
Нет, их превратили в дебильные шутки для детей

Ярик
Да, Гарри ТаЙсона называли табачным человеком, табачником....

Lucianna_Todd
На русском так не говорят, вот в чем проблема.
Это тупо буквальный перевод его описания собаками как "человека, пахнущего табаком“

Вот болваны, э!

Lucianna_Todd
Чё?! Ты "Повелителя мух" вообще читала?! Ты хоть знаешь, о чём там речь-то? Там нет ни операций на мозге, ни сознания с подсознанием!

Была и осталась. Не истери на ровном месте.
Lucianna_Todd
Ну, т.е., гидрофобии у Рафа не было. А ты ранее утверждала обратное. И воспоминания внезапно стали смутными... Прогресс.

"Well, I don't know so much about that," replied Mr. Powell. "One of them was an absolute bastard of a dog--mind you, it'd had enough to make it, poor sod--but there was nobody cared to touch it, not even old Tyson--"

"Tyson? He's the man about the place?"

"Yeah--feeds them, cleans them out an' all that. I always say he knows more about the work at Lawson Park than anyone else. He deals with all the animals, you see, and it's his business to know what each one's being used for and by whom. The rest of us, except for the Director, only know about the projects we're doing ourselves. No, but that seven-three-two, it really was a dangerous animal--it was always muzzled before it was brought out for tests--"

"What were the tests?" asked Driver.

"Well, they were something like the tests carried out by Curt Richter at the Johns Hopkins medical school in America--what's his thing called?--The Phenomenon of Sudden Death in Animals and Man.' D'you know that?"

Like a good many young people immersed in specialized work, Mr. Powell tended to forget that others were likely to be unfamiliar with his background material.

" 'Fraid I don't--not up my street really."

They came back into the yard and Mr. Powell, hands in pockets, stopped and leaned against the netty wall.

"Well, Richter put wild rats and domesticated rats into tanks of water to swim until they drowned; and he found that some of them died very rapidly for no apparent reason. A bloke called Cannon had already suggested that it might be psychogenic--you know, fear, with consequent over-stimulation of the sympathicoadrenal system; accelerated heartbeat, contraction in systole--all that jazz. What Richter established was that it wasn't fear but hopelessness--over-stimulation of the parasympathetic system, not the sympathicoadrenal. This seven-three-two dog of ours at Lawson Park had been given all sorts of drugs--you know, atropine and the colingerics, and adrenalectomy and thyroidectomy--you name it. But the real thing was that it had been continually immersed, drowned and revived, so that it had built up a terrific resistance, based on the conditioned expectation that it was going to be removed again. It didn't succumb to the usual psychogenic factors; on the contrary, it was doing fantastic endurance times, very very interesting. They're funny things, you know, hope and confidence," said Mr. Powell rather sententiously. "For instance, they're present a good deal less strongly in dogs that haven't been domesticated. Wild animals, and therefore by inference primitive men--creatures living in precarious situations--are more susceptible to fear and strain than domesticated animals. Strange, isn't it?"

"What was the object all sublime?" asked Driver, as they made their way through the Manor into the square and got back into his car.

"Well, that was a sort of psychological thing, too, as I understand it," replied Mr. Powell. "That was why they needed an adult, thoroughly domesticated dog--they paid quite a bit for it, I believe, to some woman in Dalton."

"Why did she part with it, d'you know?"

"Well, it wasn't originally hers. Apparently it had belonged to her brother in Barrow, but it had somehow or other brought about his--I'm not sure, but his death, I believe I heard--in an accident with a lorry, so naturally she wasn't keen on keeping it. That's an exceptional situation, of course. In the normal way domesticated animals-people's pets--aren't easy to come by for this work, as you can well believe. The operation was something quite new--a bit like a leucotomy, but that's misleading, really. To be perfectly frank, there were innovatory complications that put it a long way beyond me. But the general purpose--and no one'll be able to say, now, how far it was successful; not in this particular case, anyway--was to bring about a confusion of the subjective and objective in the animal's mind."

"How would that work in practice, then?" asked Digby Driver, accelerating out of the square and up the hill towards the Coniston road.

"Well, as I understand it--whoops!" Mr. Powell belched beerily, leaned forward and frowned, seeking an illustrative example. "Er--well, did you ever read a book called Pincher Martin, by a man named Golding? You know, the Lord of the Flies bloke?"

"I've read Lord of the Flies, but I don't think I know this other book."

"Well, the chap in it's supposed to be dead--drowned at sea; and in the next world, which is a sort of hellish limbo, one of the things he does is to confuse subjective and objective. He thinks he's still alive and that he's been washed up on a rock in the Atlantic, but actually it's an illusion and the rock is only a mental projection--it's the shape of a back tooth in his own head. The dog that had this operation might have illusions something like that. Suppose it had come to associate--well, let's say cats with eau de cologne, for instance--then it might be observed to treat some inanimate object--a cardboard box, say--as a cat when it was subjected to the smell of eau de cologne: or conversely, it might see something objective and act as though it was nothing but the equivalent of some thought in its mind--I can't think what, but you get the general idea."

Lucianna_Todd
Да, надо адаптировать, иначе это будет не перевод, а нечто непонятное. Ответьте на вопрос!

Lucianna_Todd
На русском так не говорят, вот в чем проблема.
Это тупо буквальный перевод его описания собаками как "человека, пахнущего табаком“